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ALAC Cairo Meeting 3rd Session Summary Minutes

5 November 2008

ALAC Participants: I Aizu, P Vande Walle, R Guerra, C Langdon-Orr, A Greenberg, B Brendler, C Aguirre, S Bachollet, V Scartezini, J Ovidio Salgueiro, A Peake, A Muehlberg, F Seye Sylla, M El Bashir, H Diakte
At-Large members: E Leibovitch, R Vasnick, D Thompson, C Samuels
Guests: Steve Crocker (SSAC Chair), J Galvin, D Brent (ICANN COO)
Staff: N Ashton-Hart, M Langenegger

The Chair started the meeting at 1030.

C Langdon-Orr gave a quick summary of today’s agenda items. With regards to the agenda item on the ALAC liaisons elections, she suggested that Sivasubramanian Muthusamy should be appointed as IDN liaison. The agenda was then accepted.

Job descriptions for At-Large position

R Guerra noted three things were important: that the ALAC be visible in the receiving body. Its Need to be active and to build trust towards the ALAC.

C Samuels pointed out that a liaison has an important role in sending out warning signals in policy areas to ensure that At-large has enough time to generate a consensus on the appropriate policy in time.

I Aizu agreed with C Samuels and argued that it was difficult for the ALAC members to read all that was published in every jurisdiction and that, thus, an ALAC liaison who could monitor the policy was needed to send signals when he sensed early concerns of the ALAC and AT LARGE, i.e. ccTLDs, then the liaison could consult with the receiving body committee to see if they can collaborate on the issues. The efficient liaison had to be a good go-between.

P Vande Walle said that liaisons should be knowledgeable of the subject they are dealing with. They should also be trusted by the ALAC in so far as liaisons cannot always consult with the ALAC before making a statement and attending meetings. This is challenging especially in a technically complex environment.

Evan Leibovitch said that the liaisons should assert themselves upon their receiving body so as this body recognized the channel.
The Chair added that this had been discussed at the Board Review meeting and they all agreed that liaisons should act as a promotional tool for ALAC, besides their advisory role.

Beau Brendler insisted on the need for the liaisons to really believe in ALAC and its PR role as representative of ALAC work and importance. The liaisons could help redress the bias suffered by ALAC in regarding the false perception that ALAC just consists of 15 people in a room making a policy on their own,

The Chair submitted to the participants a listed set of high-level requirements suggestions for the future liaisons job description regardless of their end destinations and said that they would be discussed during November.

Meeting with the Chair of the Security and Stability Advisory Committee (SSAC)

S Crocker, the SSAC Chair then joined the meeting. With regards to the role of liaisons, he noted that his idea of the role of an SSAC liaisons was that it was a full member of the SSAC.

WHOIS architecture related issues

S Crocker said that there were two areas with needed attention. The first issue has to do with IDNs and the implication on WHOIS. Does the WHOIS information need to be in English? The second issue that demands attention is the continuous discussion on the need and process of WHOIS itself. SSAC’s position on this is that it is not its purposes to define the policy process. However, he noted that there was concern within the SSAC that the policy process on WHOIS is in a deadlock.

B Brendler thanked S Crocker for his presentation and asked him how the ALAC could help the SSAC with their work.

S Crocker responded that it was important, particularly with regards to issues like Fast Flux, to find a consensus on what is technically doable and what is desirable from a policy point of view and noted that often there was a disconnect between the two.
With regards to DNNSEC, B Brendler said he was glad to hear about the recent developments and asked S Crocker about his opinion on DNNSEC.

S Crocker responded that DNNSEC was a very important issues ant noted that it should be possible for users to pass their keys on to their registries/registrar but cautioned that there needed to be a path to ensure a smooth transition of the data. (Recording 39:00)

P Vande Walle noted that end users would profit from DNSSEC but fear that it would become a profitable ventur, which made it difficult to make it attractive to users. He suggested that At-Large could play an important role in disseminating information.

S Crocker said that he agreed that there should be a certain amount of pressure from the users as there some technical services might not make sense for a registrar/registry from a producer point of view. He noted that the impulse on new issues needed to come from the user side. (45:40 recording)

R Guerra gave a short summary of the SSAC presentation on Monday and noted that one of the issues that emerged was and the user role with regards to IPv6 routers. At-Large could play a part in that and follow up on this issue.

C Langdon-Orr said that the ALS could be in a position to disseminate information to users. S Crocker noted that he thinks At-Large is a good channel to disseminate information targeted on individual Internet users.

S Crocker urged the ALAC to provide input to the external review on the SSAC, in particular with regards to communication of the finding of the SSAC studies and its dissemination.

I Aizu noted that there wasn’t a specific mechanism to inform users through ALSes. He remarked that some of the advisories were not very accessible to users and wondered if they could be made easier to read to laymen.

A Greenberg noted that it was a good moment to press harder for security issues within ICANN and felt that there was currently a lot of will within ICANN to work together. He noted that he was very encouraged by that fact.

The SSAC Chair then left the meeting.

Election of ALAC liaisons

C Langdon-Orr informed the ALAC that a vote will be held on the 2009 ALAC liaisons (see “Liaison candidated 2009” alac_liaisons_for_2009. She also thanked the departing liaisons for the time and effort spent and welcomed the re-appointed liaisons.

C Langdon-Orr noted that H Xue nominated Sivasubramanian Muthusamy as IDN Liaison and observed that, according to the bylaws and the internal rules of procedures, nominatons of liaisons could only be made by ALAC members. In order to solve this issue and move ahead, she put forward the following motion, seconded by R Guerra:

“That an appointment be made of S Muthusamy, based on H Xue’s expert advise, that he act for the following 12 month terme until the next election as IDN liaison“ (recording 1:11:10)

She added that S Muthusamy already indicated his willingness to serve on behalf of the ALAC.

The motion was carried unanimously.

H Xue will meet S Muthusamy at the IGF and lead the transition.

E Leibovitch made a proposal to have an active liaison with the PSC and self-nominated himself for this position.

C Langdon-Orr thanked Evan for volunteering for this position and asked for a formal requirement for this position. As a start, she proposed that the ALAC get in touch with Pierre Dandjinou, who is the At-Large representative selected by the ICANN CEO Paul Twomey.

It was noted that the members voting for the liaisons are the members of the incoming ALAC, in other words, the ALAC membership as of the end of the Cairo meeting.
Staff will put up an online election for the ALAC Liaisons.and update the bios on the website.

R Vasnick said that he was happy to answer questions and noted that funding should not be an issue as he goes to the ICANN meeting on his own expenses.

S Bachollet reminded that not all the new members were present and noted that there needed be a couple of days to get up to speed.

V Scartezini suggested that the candidates made a short presentation about themselves and submitted a short profile.
With regards to the dotMobi Policy Advisory Board position, C Aguirre noted that Andres Piazza was a very qualified candidate who was well know in the region and spoke several languages.

C Langdon-Orr asked C Aguirre to ask Andres to send his profile and biography to
The policy dotMobi Policy Board member Christina wanted to let the ALAC know through C Langdon-Orr that she recognised that Latin America/Carribean is underrepresented in dotMobi. This does not imply in any way that J Levine would not continue to be the excellent representative he has been. (Recording 1:31:00)

N Ashton-Hart noted that the presentation will be excerpted and put on the website.

The candidates then presented themselves:

ccTLD Liaison

Presentation Adam Peake mp3 file 1219 – 1221

Presentaton Rudi Vasnick mp3 file 1222 – 1223

B Brendler noted that the candidates who addresses the security issues in the ccTLD would get his vote.

C Langdon-Orr pointed out that the ccNSO liaison needed to be pro-active member as the ccNSO Council would not actively engage the liaisons.


Presentation Patrick Vande Walle mp3 file 1226 – 1229

Presentation Robert Guerra mp3 file 1229 – 1233
C Langdon-Orr noted that only one representative from the new ALAC was not at this meeting and said that she would make sure that he would be briefed on the open position, the votes and listen the mp3 recordings.

C Langdon-Orr asked the WG Chairs and regional leaders to send her their input for the Cairo report and the reporting back session before the end of the day.

A Greenberg noted that a PDP on domain tasting, it became a formal consensus policy. Secondly, the GNSO worked on a request for an issues report on what happens to domains after expiry.

A Greenberg put forward the following motion, seconded by R Guerra:

The ALAC approve the request for an issues reort on what happes to domains after expiry.

The motion carried unanimously.

A Peake suggested that announcements and other pieces of work of the ALAC be moved back to mailing lists.

Departing ALAC members

C Langdon-Orr thanked the departing members of the ALAC for all their years of contribution to the ALAC.

R Guerra thanked I Aizu and A Muehlberg for their work and the nuanced discussion they had together behind the scenes and he hoped that they remained friends.

V Scartezini said that A Muehlberg and I Aizu were always open for discussion and that she hoped that they would remain in contact.

B Brendler wanted to thank Izumi especially for the warm welcome he gave him when he joined the ALAC.

J Ovidio Salgueiro thanked I Aizu for his help when he joined the ALAC.

C Samuels wanted to thank Izumi and Annette especially for his consensus building in the ALAC environment and said that he was a pleasure to work with.

A Muehlberg said that she was moved by the nice work and thanked the ALAC for the companionship, discussion and work. She said that it was very hard to leave the ALAC behind. She noted that there should be more outreach towards other ICANN constituencies and hoped that the At-Large Summit might represent such a possibility.

The meeting was then concluded.